We were featured as Roaster of the Month with Tyler Hagan of Commonly Coffee
We had followed Tyler on Instagram for quite a while before we met in person at the SCA Expo in Portand, Oregon. He's so vivacious and full of energy and has quite a sphere of influence - especially among his home Canadian friends. We were honored when he reached out to us saying he wanted to feature us in his "Roaster of the Month" blog feature.
Enjoy the read!
Hey Carol & Eric, so great to get the chance to connect with you! Help our audience get to know you a bit better…What’s your backstory in coffee?
We are a husband/wife duo and have been married 36 years. We have eight kids, we homeschool, and we sorta homestead, at least we used to. At one time we had dairy goats that we milked and I made cheese, while Eric worked a corporate hi-tech job. I’m the organized, crunchy mama with a vision and Eric is the one that makes it happen, and really, really loves the art and science of roasting.
How did you get started?
Eric had a friend who was roasting coffee on his backyard BBQ and that intrigued him. It got him thinking about something we could do together after he retired from his hi-tech job, and he asked me if I’d like to roast coffee with him. Of course, I said yes, but also knew nothing about it. He found that Specialty Coffee Association of America offered classes to become SCAA certified coffee roasters so we spent the summer taking the classes and learning all we could about every aspect of coffee from its history, growing, harvesting, processing, exporting/importing, green coffee buying and roasting. Several of these classes were at Swiss Water Process plant in Burnaby, BC. which later would
become ironic. The more we learned, the more we fell in love with the coffee industry and its people. We achieved Roaster Level 1 with SCAA.
What keeps you going in coffee?
Knowing that we can make a difference! Knowing we can help coffee lovers who can’t have caffeine enjoy their coffee again by providing choices of single origin, light to medium roasts instead of only one dark roast blend as an offering. We call it “redefining decaf” because we it’s no longer your grandma’s decaf! We also are trying to create space for the feeling of community too. The “Death Before Decaf” attitude can feel rather alienating coupled with feeling of being left out and overlooked. We hope they feel valued and prioritized here. Our slogan is “Coffee is for everyone – caffeine isn’t.”
Before we go much further, share with our readers what you’re drinking/enjoying these days when it comes to coffee!
Carol: When I’m home, I usually enjoy a decaf Americano with a splash of cream and a sprinkle of cinnamon. Lately, I’ve been adding some beef collagen (unflavored) for some protein. My favorite origin is Ethiopia especially with blueberry notes! When I visit a café, I like to enjoy one of their signature espresso drinks (decaf, of course.) I love to see the creativity and their spin on the usual offerings.)
ERIC: I drink regular Americano for the first half of the day and then enjoy decaf for the rest. I enjoy a honey processed Costa Rica.
At a café, I like to enjoy an espresso or a seasonal drink for the same reason as Carol
Can you tell us a bit about the history of Talking Crow Coffee?
How did it get started?
With a lot of blood, sweat, and tears, literally!
When we first started, our original dream was to build our a roastery out of 40’ shipping container on our 5-acre property in the foothills of the Cascade Mountains, but trying to get permits and approval for converting a shipping container into a facility that would ultimately have a certificate of occupancy was virtually impossible, so we did the next best thing. We cleared an area on our property (literally downed lots of tall trees, smoothed and graded) and bought an ugly job shack that we transformed onto a stylish workspace/packaging space/roastery. We also did the ground work for starting a small business: trademarking our name, applying for business licenses, creating a business plan, etc. Our location was perfect, but rather remote with no access to natural gas. Due to this, we investigated electric roasters. We decided upon a 10 lb. 100% electric air roaster manufactured by Ashe Industries instead of a traditional gas drum roaster.
How did you come up with the name?
We had a family brainstorming session that went off and on for a few days with so many random ideas. One thing led to another and Eric mentioned Talking Crow. We knew we hit it, but here’s why…
When Eric was a young boy, he and his family had a few crows they had rehabilitated. One in particular was named Tony. Eric and his brothers taught Tony a few words like “Hello”, “Play ball”, along with a few others. He would often fly alongside the school bus following Eric to grammar school. The special needs kids had a separate recess and Tony liked one particular boy who fed him Cheetos. This boy was autistic and didn’t speak to anyone. Tony however would say “Hello” to the boy. Eventually, the boy ended up talking with Tony and teaching him the
alphabet and how to count from 1-10”. Tony was super special to so many in the community and to Eric as well so when he said, “Talking Crow”, it was a no-brainer.
Alright, if our readers weren’t aware already, let’s get straight to the point. Talking Crow is a specialty coffee roaster that primarily focuses on decaf coffee. Why decaf?
We didn’t start out intending to be a decaf focused roastery, but shortly after opening in 2017, I really struggled with my health. I was diagnosed with HPA Axis Dysfuntion (also known as extreme adrenal fatigue) and advised to avoid all caffeine. Rather than give up our new dream, we pivoted and decided to focus on crafting excellent decaf because good decaf is hard to find. We created the tag line, “Coffee is for everyone – caffeine isn’t”. Being told I had to get rid of
my favorite thing I looked forward to every morning, was super hard! I felt like I went through the 5 stages of grief! (NOT exaggerating!) The reputation of decaf didn’t excite me, and trying to find options beyond one dark roast blend was impossible – especially at a café. It was THEN – in that moment, that we realized I couldn’t be alone. Other decaf drinkers must feel this way too. That’s when we committed to crafting the most excellent, flavorful light and medium roast
decafs.
5) So in terms of decaf coffee, why do you think for so long it’s gotten a bad rap? We’ve all seen “death before decaf” on stickers, signage and many other places. What should our readers know about decaf coffee? Part of the problem is that decaf coffee has often been overlooked by roasters, though that’s changing now that 20% of coffee drinkers are decaf drinkers! The first reason is because bad
coffee starts with bad coffee! Most decaf (certainly grocery store decaf) is inferior quality coffee with lots of defects that affect taste. Specialty decaf is much higher in quality and you can taste that in the cup. Secondly, to cover over the poor quality/taste, it’s then roasted super dark. Most people add cream and sugar to dark roasted coffee, which also attempts to mask the bad flavor. Lastly, the decaffeination process plays a huge role in flavor. Ultimately, it’s a cascade of faults, bad coffee, a roast level that doesn’t showcase flavor (on purpose) and the
decaffeination process. All of these aspects adversely effect the flavor of decaf.
Most people enjoy coffee more for the boost, rather than flavor. Third Wave Coffee has introduced them to good coffee without added cream or sweeteners and allowed them to fully enjoy coffee for its flavor. This has opened the door for good tasting decaf – because decaf drinkers don’t drink for the buzz, but rather to enjoy all the delicious flavor coffee has to offer. Good decaf IS a thing!
6) I noticed that you exclusively source decaf that is from Swiss Water Process? Why them?
What sets Swiss Water apart from other decaffeination processes?
There are four different methods, Methylene Chloride (chemical solvent) Ethyl Acetate (also a chemical solvent though derived from naturally occurring plant esters), CO2, and Water Process (Swiss Water and Mexican). Most commercial coffees that people are most familiar with are decaffeinated using chemicals because it’s cheap. We’ve cupped all decaf processes repeatedly. I personally don’t like MC decafs because I react to the chemicals. Being a crunchy mama, that’s not an option as an offering from us. Ethyl Acetate (EA) does lend itself to nice flavor profiles, but again, is processed with chemicals. Honestly, the CO2 method doesn’t taste good enough to meet our standards. The Water method (from Mexico) is chemical-free and has nice flavor, but it’s only 97% caffeine-free. The Swiss Water method is the only method that has great flavor, is 100% chemical-free and 99.9% caffeine-free. They also do 3 rd party testing for mold and each coffee has a certificate that it is mold-free. This is why we’ve chosen to exclusively use Swiss Water.
There has been a lot of news recently about other forms of decaffeination being
potentially carcinogenic, particularly processes using Methylene Chloride. Can you clear the air on this? And is this then another reason why you chose to exclusively use Swiss Water?
There is a LOT that could be said about this, and the jury is still out. People fall hard on either side of this debate, but the scientific data that we’ve seen shows it is indeed a carcinogen. Methylene chloride (MC) is a chemical used in paint stripping and metal cleaning/degreasing and is a known carcinogen and can cause other health issues, such as liver toxicity, neurological effects, and in some cases death if ingested directly or at high levels of exposure. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has banned most, but not all industrial uses of
methylene chloride. The Federal Drug Administration (FDA) allows the use of methylene chloride as a solvent to decaffeinate coffee, stipulating that “the residues of methylene chloride must not exceed 10 parts per million in both roasted and instant decaffeinated coffee. The current FDA claims that residue limits have been set to limit exposure, and that any food product that contains residues of methylene chloride above the established limits are not permitted for sale or consumption, according to an FDA spokesperson. However, under Australia’s Food Standards Code, the maximum amount of MC permitted in
decaffeinated coffee is 2 milligrams per kilogram, or 2 parts per million, which is 5 times less than the FDA allows for the United States. (Is there something Australia knows that the FDA isn’t telling us?) The Environmental Working Group (EWG) is a US-based environmental advocacy group known for its extensive lists of “clean” products. They are petitioning the FDA to ban the use of methylene chloride in the production of food and decaf coffee. California lawmakers are considering a bill (The Clean Label Project) that could fine sellers of decaf coffee up to $10,000 for not disclosing that methylene chloride was used in the decaffeinating process.
Proponents for the use of Methylene Chloride claim that only a very small amount of the chemical remains on the beans and is safe at these levels. It is definitely part of the reason why we have chosen to exclusively use Swiss Water.
Educating our customers on the different decaf processes is important to us as it helps them make informed decisions.
8) So, home-base for you is Springdale, Arkansas, but you’ve only recently relocated there from the PNW. Can you share a bit more about Arkansas’ coffee culture and how perhaps it compares to where you were before the move?
Honestly, nothing compares to the coffee culture in the PNW! It’s the land of latte stands on just about every corner and cafes with the best vibes! That being said, we are enjoying finding the hidden gems here in Northwest Arkansas. This little area is one that’s up and coming and specialty coffee is a part of that. Just the next town over in Rogers is homebase for Onyx Coffee Lab, who let’s be honest, has set the bar high in the world of specialty coffee. Airship in Bentonville has an amazing café on the Coler Bike path. (As must if you are in the area!) There
are several quality roasters and cafes in Fayetteville, the hometown of University of Arkansas. Where there’s a college town, there’s good coffee! We haven’t even scratched the surface.
I did want to add, I noticed on your website that you also offer regular coffee. Is that recent? Can you speak to the decision to also offer that?
Ah, yes, remember, we didn’t start out as decaf focused roastery, but we decided to keep a few regulars in our offering, mostly for quality control. We try to keep the same origins in both regular and decaf so that we can compare taste and flavor profiles to be sure our decafs are just as good! We LOVE when people say, “we couldn’t tell it was decaf!”. Now that we are known as the King of Decaf we do have plans to reduce our regular offerings down to just three.
It’s been amazing getting the chance to help share your story. Any last words to our readers before we wrap this up?
We feel so privileged to be a part of the world of coffee and are thankful for the amazing, kind people we have met along the way.
We hope coffee lovers who can’t have caffeine look to us for all their decaf needs.
Thank you, Tyler, for sharing our story!